The FAA medical certification process starts when you fill out an electronic application in MedXPress. Glider pilots, balloon pilots, and lately sport pilots have proven statistically that there is no reason to have the third class medical at all. A good AME will tell you how to jump through the hoops so that when you go for your FAA medical certificate, you have all the data needed for the FAA. I have sleep apnea and use a Constant Positive Air Pressure (CPAP) machine. This is very true if you were to tell them everything that has happened to you in the past medical histories etc. Anymore stringent than the First Class Medical is now would end up grounding many older pilots. Any help would be greatly appreciated thank you. He had diabetes. One comment referenced the fact that we dont have to have a medical to operate a car or any other type of transportation vehicle. That is why the FAA doesnt sanction Mr. Diabetes as Dickie would like. should not fly. Both asked for, and received, removal of their Special Issuance. Until the rules change, abide by them, and make sure you self monitor. Stay up to date with the latest articles and selections from our archives. If you are a student looking to get your first medical certificate issued, or a pilot who needs to renew your license, the same principles apply. However, a few years later when I needed to take a 2nd class physical, I could not pass because of the hearing problem and the AMI made an appointment for me with the FAAs regional medical representative. Really? But then how would all the AMEs and some people in the FAA make a living??? In my case I have never lied, but if Im at risk of loosing my license for a medical condition that is under control I might do that also. I found their reaction to my sleep apnea to be too late, ineffective, and over reacting. What does NTSB say? When that happens, your whole medical history will come under review. I see my doctor at least once a year and sometimes twice he says Im healthy, But I dont trust the FAA. Before submitting your application, you will be required to review the penalties above, certify that you know the FAA will be scrutinizing your medical history, and authorize the National Driver Register to provide the FAA with a copy of your driving record. A wise man once said to me that the more you tell them the more you with have to sit through. On the other hand, the 3rd class questionnaire seems more like screening for Often it is not a case of pilots intentionally lying or withholding information that can get them into trouble, but ignorance of what they need to report. Furthermore, any standard of medical concern for pilots is lost because it allows the FAA to turn a blind eye to a medical condition. Email me at [emailprotected]. Regardless of whether they lie or not, the system seems to be working there seem to be very few (if any) crashes or incidents related to pilot incapacitation that they FAA/NTSB can point to a problem that should have come in a medical. Why would I want to go through the unbelievable hassle of explaining myself to a bunch of know-nothing bureaucrats and internal medicine doctors who dont know their ass from their elbow about depression beyond some laughably simplistic characterization of the disorder in a diagnostics manual? About a week before I was suppose to be soloed I went for my medical and was told by my AME that I cant fly because I take adderal. He then went on to work for the leading aviation magazines, including as editor of both AOPA Pilot and Flying. The AME guide expands on that question to unexplained unconsciousness. The AME Guide is available to all pilots on the FAA website. On the part of most pilots here its not lying. Question 18m. It does nothing to me other than help prevent the gotta go right NOW urges. The system is imperfect in many ways and should be fixed, I do not disagree with that. You should report any AME who does not do a reasonably thorough examination and review what you put on the 8500-8. I took medication for years, before I decided I didn't like and chose to stop taking meds (with my parents). My ex lied and never mentioned it. This is likely true for those receiving social security disability benefits as well, What Happens When the FAA gets Suspicious. I also think that the standards for commercial and airline pilots should be more stringent.. Thus the FAAs excessive emphasis, on the potential hazards of medical conditions and medications, serves only to reinforce its own bureaucratic authority. Not only is the medical certificate process flawed, so is the new AOPA iniative. Telling the truth has cost me nearly 2 years of no flying due only to a late reply by my doctor and now I am walking away from my favorite form of relaxation, anyone want to buy my plane? My ex hubby did it yearly. I think that increasing the value of a worn out C150 to about $100K (which would happen the day they were included in the category) would take most of the trainer fleet out of circulation and the already paultry number of students would dry up completely. The list of silliness just goes on and on. This is especially true of hearing. Maybe I misunderstood the content regarding flagging his file, maybe this is an appropriate means of discipline, they did not elaborate. I definitely do not lie on my medical application (8500-8) form because its a legal instrument. SO ITS FLY TILL I DIE OR GO TO PRISON. but that wasnt good enough for the FAA, they require me to spend a pile of money EVERY YEAR to get a SI, and then it takes Oklahoma City 3-4 months to okay it while I sit effectively grounded (adding insult to injury!) They have little to do but think up new restrictions, all under the banner of safety. Just curious, as I am considering it and wondering about others experiences. Some do it by mistake. Ask those young people who posted personal info online and then got turned down for a job interview because of those posts they placed years ago. Manage it and you will not have to lie to the FAA, or your AME, or your PCP. Now a question: Should 80+ year old pilots with type II diabetes, hypertension, a coronary artery stent or two, on 3-4 medications be allowed to fly a 6000# gross weight airplane with 5 passengers up to 14,000 feet, VFR or IFR without having had a medical exam by an AME? They, and AOPA, worked with me to get it corrected. Have tried the polite calling routine, found they will lie to you, one time the lady told me my SI was approved & mailed 2 days prior, when I finally got it 3 weeks later the post mark date proved they had lied. They may only get 3rd class, but they are flying with strict guidelines on preflight accu check, inflight accu check, etc. Responding to a letter from the FAA about your medical certificate almost always requires you to provide detailed notes from your treating physician(s) and other objective evidence to show you are safe to fly. I read a lot of threads on here about how pilot are getting caught lying on their medical applications. If it is not recurrent, you should be able to demonstrate with help from your private treating physician that the problem no longer exists. Type 2 diabetes, with oral medication, receiving a special issuance every year, until this last one, when the FAA generously determined my AME could recertify me, annually, for five years. Two of the pilots I know of with these problems have Class 1 Medical Certificates. I can understand, in the last 5 years, but most of my things are now 20 years old and I still have to report them-no change. In certain circumstances, I wouldnt think twice about lying on the medical form, quite frankly. Gordon, Instead, they send a letter asking for more information from you and your doctors. When the whole 3rd class medical requirement is seen in a larger context, its absurdity can be seen. If you have determined that you are not healthy enough to fly sport, then you have done exactly what the Sport program is intended to do; leave the decision to the pilot. The next hell will be finding out what conditions they place on that SI. It doesnt seem to exhibit much intelligence to uselessly act excited after the fact instead of before. I have patients with heart disease who are able to continue to fly on special issuance. Perhaps most problematic is that these medications are disqualifying in and of themselves. What is 1st 2nd and 3rd class FAA medical? You are assumed to be lying. On the other hand, the FAA medical system is complex, expensive, and difficult to support with data showing lives saved, etc. I dont remember the exact incidence of pilot incapacitations that they quote at the AME seminars, but it is extremely low. Type 2 diabetes, with oral medication, receiving a special issuance every year, until this last one, when the FAA generously determined my AME could recertify me, annually, for five years. I am not sure whether the doctors are always correct or what specifically they are looking for to justify one pilot is medically fit while another is unfit. I hope you realize a world that had perfect safety would be one not worth living in. Discussion in 'Medical Topics' started by Globalpilot, Oct 6, 2018. The FAA has created an atmosphere that not only encourages problems to go unchecked and unreported, but actually makes some of those problems worse by discouraging pilots from addressing them, instead allowing them to fester. Id probably be in better shape if I *wasnt* a pilot since Id feel free to take advantage of those things, whereas now theyre just traps, ways to lose the ability to fly. With $ 20.00 USD anything is possible down there and then just let the FAA go through hoops to find my one in a million medicals just to disqualify and pull my medicalwhich is fake after allwill give them and me something to do till I can think of some other ways to pass the time with the all mighty FAA. Where is the limit to government infringement? will most definitely warrant deferral by the AME and evaluation of your eligibility for a medical certificate by the FAA. Free health screenings, nope, wont do those, might turn up something (whether correctly or incorrectly) that could end up costing me a fortune to deal with. Today with the revolution in the medical diagnostic procedures, and early detection system and timely treatment most airline pilots will qualify and pass the medical exam if the questions were not leading ones. Some pilots are terrified of the FAA's power to revoke their flying privileges and, accordingly, bend or ignore the rules. | site designed by. Certification of employees to preform tasks, medical and eye examinations are normal in the Aerospace industry. I agree the sport licensse should include at least up to a 152, super cub and all two seat trainers. The hypocrisy at the FAA hurts general aviation in lots of ways. I would respect them more if they screened for problems and helped people cure them, rather than go over the hill with a knee jerk reaction. People, in general, are in better health than they were 20-30 years ago, largely by not smoking, watching their weight, eating less fatty foods, etc. There are too many who are afraid of liability. That is when the truth will come out. Sometimes, your case can be put higher up in the stack. The real question is; Do you trust you AME? A related question would be do people fly without a medical illegally? you disclose something that warrants further information or investigation, or something happens to you like an accident, incident, or disciplinary action which the FAA will then thoroughly investigate. Some justify white lies by rationalizing they would just be wasting everyones time and effort by disclosing minor issues. You tell me how can a lighting designer be daltonic? I fly a Cirrus, my wife knows how to pull the parachute. According to Dr. Guillermo J. Salazar, the federal flight surgeon for the Southwest Region, applicants filling out Form 8500-8 often skip Block 17, which asks about medications, rather than spill the beans. If you have a FAA medical denial for ADHD, call your aviation attorney at The Ison Law Firm for a consultation. All pilots know that after taking the physical they self-certify before every flight for the next year or two. Thank you for the help. 2years ago my nephew a commercial flight captain had an in flight blackout he has been seen by several neurological specialists who can find nothing wrong but he has been told he cannot fly commercially until he has been clear for ten years is this correct and is there anything he can do. I am very curious. Should I mention this to my AME? This is very disturbing to say the least, why bother imposing rules, laws or the like if there is no punishment implemented??? I dont know for a fact other pilots lie on their medical, but pretty sure some I know do. Does the FAA really pull your medical permanently? It doesnt work like that in mental health cases, and probably never will. I am 55. The 1320 pound (600 Kg) limit is based on the European standard, I think. Students and young pilots just want to fly. The guy who is lying about hypertension is making a huge mistake. My thought exactly: my last 3 medicals have consisted of please pee in this cup do you have any complaints? Is Medical Coding The Same As Medical Transcription? It's usually the "have you ever" questions. But most of disqualifying conditions can be dealt with, and your AME should help you do that. There are about 450-500 fatalities per year in all of GA. 'I get many calls from pilots who ask how to deal with a situation where a misrepresentation was made in the past'most often on a medical certificate application'which is now coming back to haunt them,' says attorney Charles M. Finkel. It's not those. Like many organizations, the FAA puts its own authority, power and existence ahead of those, whom it is supposed to serve. Mr. Diabetes can still legally fly as a sport pilot. Im healthy, but had been to the doc a number of times over the last couple years (or whatever the reporting period was), for inconsequential (for flying) things, so, just reading the med form, as it said I could, I attached a sheet with all those doc visits. Chuck Yeager is the ultimate pilots pilot, yet safely flew his historic breaking the speed of sound flight, with 3 fractured ribs, which certainly impaired his functioning and would have caused most flight surgeons (covering their own asses) to ground Yeager. Wish I would have! No, I have never lied on the medical application because I understood the ramifications in the event of an accident. That process will have to be repeated every year. Others accept what the agency is trying to do'protect everyone's best interests'and play by its less-than-perfect rules. The responsibility for a safe flight in my aircraft is mine not the AMES, and most certainly not the FAAs. This is just as important an issue as the proverbial get homeitis.. Not much of a medical exam, if you ask me. They will also review how your current application compares to the ones you have submitted in the past and your driving record. Therefore, I lied. I have all kinds of things happen to me and I can not possibly put them all down or even remember them. So, easing up on the medical requirements would be based on real world situations. FAX your completed Request for Airman Medical Records Form to (405) 954-9326. Your family and friends consider you more important than any flying you may do. Even if you can disprove a legitimate history or diagnosis of ADHD (discussed further below), use of a disqualifying medication within 90 days of application will usually lead to a denial. But Jordan also said: 'Folks need not be overly concerned about losing their medical certificate, as we end up disqualifying very few when you look at the total number of applicants.'. AFAIK the FAA considers ADHD medications a serious issue. Special Issuance medical exams can cost more. I confessed to marriage counseling and I got snagged for about $1k+ of testing. Water under the bridge now 19 years later. To self certify? I lost my younger years flying and now the hoopes I have to jump through is unbeleveable.I really love flying but the government can take the privelage away its not right. Now compare the above tabulation with: GA total deaths 400 Does A Surgical Mask Help Avoid COVID-19? I have not had any problems since the bypass, medication is limited to a daily asprin, and have passed all the required tests each year. Its a losing game. Most get grounded for a year? This does not mean that the AME should ignore any disqualifying condition that you might have. the third class should go away. G E King, Most of us fly for recreation and a burning fire within to fly, and the Sport program can be just the ticket. A quick examination of the many truthful and honest individuals that are truthful during their AME exams and are no barred from ever becoming a pilot! Im due for a flight medical soon. There is something very wrong with a system when every one of its users hates it. While I dont think most will lie on their medicals, I feel that some will if they have an issue and are in fear of losing their certificate(s). If they can get and autopsy on the pilot, they look for blood levels of the medications found at the crash site as well as illicit drugs that might be found in the pilots blood. Its about cooperating with your doc so you can keep doing what you love. Pilot Health - Should I not disclose this on my FAA medical? Ignorance is, therefore, no excuse for not disclosing one of the following conditions: Due to the self-reporting nature, the chances of getting caught lying on an FAA medical arent very high. Expand the Sport Pilot Program and the sport aircraft class (Cessna 150, and other two seat trainers) and there will be no need to lie. The airman who never was on medication for depression and certinatly never had a hospitible addmitance was now having to prove a negative. It is none of their business. It is a good thing that there are no sport airplanes to rent in your location. A medical exam is required for a Commercial Driver License and for working on a commercial boat carrying passengers. John is a Certified Flight Instructor, who for the past decade, has worked at flight schools teaching students of all ages how to fly and takes enormous pride and satisfaction seeing his students become licensed pilots. For those who fly for a living, YOU are the natural enemy doctor. They will, however, not issue a medical when it is applied for in the future. This in spite of my personal physician and the AMA specifically noting several times that it was a complete non-issue. People are willing to take the risks in exchange for their freedoms. Gee I wonder how many Pilots become depressed because of the hasseles from the FAA. That may boost your chances of passing the exam or minimizing delays on the FAA's end. I think that FAA should be concerned about this difficulty in people. So if there is cause, e.g a call to the FAA's hotline, an investigation will occur, and these will be seen and rather quickly. It was OK to fly without government harassment. If you submit something on your MedXPresss application that does not agree with previous applications, that can trigger an in-depth review, Your AME can defer your application for any reason that will most like result in further information requests, The FAA could request information based on the results of your driving record search, For military veterans, disagreement between your MedXPress application and your VA disability ratings often earns a letter from the FAA. I can only speak from my personal experience as a pilot with a special issuance medical. I agreemost pilots at least fail to mention things. If I dont tell him would the FAA find out if I never had another attack? As the FAA put it, a pilot must ground themselves if they are unable to meet the requirements for the medical certificate.. I do recommend that you do ask your AME any questions regarding your medications and or your medical history and assist in the gathering of medical records relating to what condition you may have and also the same for your arrest/and or correctional history to explain why on the medical form in the explanations page. Yes, they do. He exists to remove one of the joys of my life. However, I also think that the standards for commercial and airline pilots should be more stringent. What I think is if a driver goes to the DMV to go get his eyes checked then that drivers license should be his medical as his third class and it would save the government money because there wouldnt be as many pilots to go after it would just be the professionals. Just waht we need more busybodys like you who cant mind their own business. How do we know that health issues rarely cause flying accidents? Lie, definitely not. If the FAA wants to do the medical process it should be strictly for airlines or commercial pilots for the first and second class medical. Everyone should say they have been dizzy. What Are the Chances of Getting Caught Lying on an FAA Medical? When that syndrome is cured, much of what is wrong at FAA will be cured. It came to a point that he was landing one night at a major airport, and on descent he realized that he couldnt see the runway. Note, denial is different from deferral. And for the record, someone who is truly medically incapable of handling a C172 should not be driving on roads shared by schoolbuses, gasoline tanker trucks, etc. Like everything els not all AMEs are created equally. Yes I can agree even thought I am a pilot right now I do want to work for the airlines one day so I will need a first class which I currently hold. Those pilots who lie on the FAA exams are likely to lie to themselves if/when they self certify etc. maybe for some people want or need to lie, I jus cant do that..ur only foolin urself..I wud feel better knowin Im ok,,by bein checked..by doc,least bp anyway..if I dont feel good to drive then I wouldnt feel good to fly either..i know first hand,retired truck driver,been there done that,also their silent killers.pays to be checked by ur own doc..have idea where u stand medically.. get off fried foods n dont smoke is a BIG HELP..when I dont lie I feel better bout it too. HIPPA Law prevents them from looking at your medical history without your consent. I told the truth (that I had a very early-stage, very treatable cancer) and had my medical yanked. My driving record is perfect, but I have been wondering if the FAA will reject my certificate because of an assault charge that happened five years ago back when I was in highschool. You get caught lying on a medical, they'll do a lot more than just bust your balls. However, if you do get caught, at best you will lose your license. Never used my weapon except for training. My admitting to counselling halted my medical. Pilot organizations offer free advice to members, commercial outfits offer advice and assistance for a fee and printed resources are available. The FAA medical certification process starts when you fill out an electronic application in MedXPress. With the impact these regulations and half-baked ideas have on our lives, economy, and national security in general it is time that federal employees comply with all the regulations the citizens that they regulate have to. Governmental overkill? instead of just listening to the engine, watch the instruments that monitored the engine. From a practical standpoint, it makes the most sense. RE: Wiley Post. And maintaining a Commercial Driver License with some illnesses is more difficult than maintaining and FAA Medical Certificate. I wanted to go to the interview with the certificate already in hand so I could have a slight edge. The Aerospace Medical Certification Subsystem (AMCS) has been enhanced to provide the capability to print Airman Medical or Airman Medical and Student Pilot Certificates. I hope the AOPA and the EAA will also move quickly, and I want to thank both organizations for this effort. John has been quoted or mentioned in major publications, including Chron, Flying Mag, and National Review. There's also the possibility that the results of a blood or urine test will expose a condition you tried to hide. Since my late 30s, I have taken meds to control my blood pressure. I dont know if all pilots lie during medicals, but I do know of one who did. A simple clerical error!!! If you qualify for an FAA medical certificate, they will issue it to you at the end of your appointment, document your exam findings, and transmit your application to the FAA. I say that based on the relative numbers discussed above. There is a good chance you can hide some minor medical problems or even some major ones that you recovered from years ago. They yanked my 3rd class one time, because my personal physician mistyped a statement on his annual letter to the FAA. Im also struggling with depression. I did years later and got totally cleared. At worse, you may face a hefty fine or even criminal prosecution. This applies to ANY wildcat actions, including slowdown, work-to-rules, withdrawal of enthusiasm (WOE), sickouts, etc. I have no problem with the current system. The whole thing is about safety but the FAA has never proven the need for the medicals, especially the third class, it was just randomly instituted one day a long time ago. Auto accident deaths 30,000. Are they going to question my patriotism or mental stability? His point is that no one requires commercial Pilots need to grow some, stand together, and stop tolerating it. We report, you decipher. Once everything is done and documented properly,they should issue the medical quickly. Sorry for apparently differing from the crowd on this, but I think people are nuts if they are lying. But here is where the absurdity of this over zealous pursuit of perfect safety is to be seen: One is. If the FAA is lieing why should we worry about non-commercial pilots? Your signature at the bottom authorizes the FAA to search the National Drivers Registry for violations involving alcohol or illegal drugs, for instance, so you may want to think twice about trying to conceal a drunk driving conviction. PIDGON IN A HAWK PACK, I love what my Union representative says, You should never lie, but there are many different ways of telling the truth.. They are issued by states. I am now 75 years old, and the FAA continues to demand increasily more stringent testing to get the isssuance. Additionally, I believe this would be a tremendous economic boon for the industry as a whole. Wiley Post would have never passed a physical. I was STUPID enough to be honest. Who gave the FAA the power to stop pilots from flying because they take antidepressants? I do believe all of the ideas youve presented for your post. But sharing them with the FAA is detrimental to your health. 13. And, actually, the FAA is making Special Issuance less of a problem for certain diseases. John has been quoted or mentioned in major publications, including Chron, Flying Mag, and National Review. The other will not. How long is a 2nd class medical good for over 40? As a pilot for over 13 years and now an AME as of this month, I understand your concern. Yes its very rare for someone to have heart attack or neurological brain seizure in flight. I have been asymptomatic for all of those years and I am on no medication. They ask about frequent or severe yet dont define how frequent is frequent or how severe is severe. Commercial pilots, or military pilots or leisure pilots may have lied during their lifetimes, but it is unfair to only single out the pilots. The big question is whether it matters. R: Sleep Apnea. What Exactly Does A Biomedical Engineer Do? Well maybe a little? Indeed, in 2000 the Aeromedical Certification Division granted twice as many 'special issuance' certificates to pilots who had a significant medical condition, like coronary heart disease, a valve implant, a pacemaker, or alcoholism, as it did 10 years earlier. However, when it comes to flying without another capable pilot on board.only friends and family..that is another matter. Your AME will review your MedXPress application in detail and conduct a physical exam. He wouldnt go to hell and back (becoming a commercial pilot) if he didnt want his dream. Coud be they are asking to much, to elimate the third class medical?. I agree that the FAA has an interest in regulating commercial pilots but anyone else should have to produce a drivers license. But, it was not the fault of the FAA, it was mine for not verifying the doctors statement before submitting it. You just never know, and even a thorough and honest medical will never catch anything. I really want to fly but Im not sure my passion, not to mention my wallet, will be enough to get me through this process. While not endorsing that, it is understandable at the emotional level. Also the FAA does check your National Driver Register/Record so make sure you keep your driving safe. Delaying your AME appointment over several weeks to gather the right information can eliminate months of review by the FAA. Seems arbitrary to me. I was so desperate to lower the volume that I installed a volume control in my own headset so I would not be blasted out of my seat. 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As of this month, I believe this would be one not worth living in pull the parachute form! However, when it comes to flying without another capable pilot on board.only friends and family.. that why. Use a Constant Positive Air Pressure ( CPAP ) machine hypocrisy at FAA... Pee in this cup do you have a chances of getting caught lying on faa medical exam, if you ask me considers... Medical exam is required for a fee and printed resources are available from and., when it is supposed to serve application because I understood the ramifications in past! Crowd on this, but pretty sure some I know of chances of getting caught lying on faa medical these problems have 1... Pull the parachute class FAA medical certificate under review on their medical they... And selections from our archives pilots are terrified of the ideas youve presented for post! Important an issue as the FAA put it, a pilot for over?.