Just tell me and I will do it for you.. Let his blood be on us and on our children., Perhaps the Gibeonites are a type of the inclusion of the gentiles Romans 9:22-24. Ezekiel 18:19-20 indicates that guilt for sin is not transferable, but the consequences can often touch several generations. And the Lord said, There is bloodguilt on Saul and on his house, because he put the Gibeonites to death. 2 So the king called the Gibeonites and Davids choice of victims reflects at least the covenant between him and Jonathan, if not also the one between him The latter believed that Saul's desire was to destroy them utterly. This is a bit unusual. "There's something rotten in Denmark," as the saying goes. The Israelite version was a whole lot less absolute. Then there is another thing. 'Whoever kills a person, the murderer shall be put to death on the testimony of witnesses [another layer that comes in]; but one witness is not sufficient testimony against a person for the death penalty. This has become known as the "eye for an eye principle." Scripture has said this explicitly. Think about this for a moment. There is no biblical account of this escapade of Saul and his house against Gibeon. Why did he not seem to notice the first year and say to himself, "Hmm. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is he. . Fifty years ago was 1957. ( v.1 ) So God sent a famine to punish a kingdom for something that a former king supposedly did. We still need some more background. They had a more bloody and violent systemwhich often led to blood feuds that may not ever end until a whole family or generation was gone. He was setting us an example of what we should be doing in a spiritual sense. That would be a town in Benjamin just north of Jerusalem. But it appears at least 40, maybe 50 years in the past. When God called Saul to be king, Israel was on the verge of collapse. During the time of the judges, the Israelites had repeatedly turned away, lea Let's see what's in our bag of tricks. This is what we have to learnunderstanding the distinction between guilt for sin, and the lingering effects of sin. In their poverty and slavery the bowed but ever proud Gibeonites refused financial and other forms of compensation for the attempted genocide on their tribe. There is a very important difference. Saul and the Pharisees persecuted and killed the Christians, The sons of King Saul were killed as a result of this attempted genocide, The non-Christian inhabitants of Jerusalem were destroyed in AD70 Gods judgment on them for murdering his son and doubtless, the early Christians. This is certainly not the David of Psalm 34, where he wrote. We have to understand that the people of the land represent the things we need to overcomeour human nature and our problems; the world and its pulls to its ways; and Satan and all the ways that he tries to manipulate us. God punished the whole nation for breaking the covenant. God is not bloodthirsty, but He had told them what to do. David then goes to Gibeonites and asked to make amends. With all the recent rebellions, he was probably worried that his alliances were going to fail, because he may have appeared to weaken. That is how we overcome the dearth of the truth and the dearth of righteousness in our day. 21:1-11 ). Evidently, that is what he did. He gets kicked down the societal ladder for his sin, and it takes three or four generations for the family to recover. We have examples of where that has happened, but he did not do that this time. In addition, after this was the rebellion of Sheba, in which there were all kinds of disruptions until Sheba was killed. This meant the latter harvest has passed, and maybe another month or so went by. And with what shall I make atonement, that you may bless the inheritance of the LORD?" This indicates that God was not pleased, whatsoever, with how this situation was resolved by David. Saul was thirty years old when he began to reign, and he reigned for forty -two years over Israel. Although the people of Israel had sworn to spare them, Saul had sought to strike them down in his zeal for the people of Israel and Judah. Nob. These conflicting views on Saul would continue long past the biblical era and into modern times. The historical narrative of King David is drawing to a close. He came at this as though he were guilty with Saul; that all Israelites were guilty with Saul and his house. When were threatened by a Philistine attack, Saul he disobeyed Jehovah by offering a sacrifice instead of waiting for Samuel to do it. PHARAOH AND HAMAN - Think about it. It must have been a satisfactory solution from Gods point of view, because he sent the rain on the land after the measures had been taken. Deceit and delusion are powerful spiritual weapons of destruction but they pale in potency compared to the creative and edifying Word of God come alive by faith in believers' hearts! You can read about them for yourself in the Book of Joshua, chapters nine and ten. We want them to reflect what a real person would do in extreme or extraordinary circumstances. and for his bloody house. God is just. How did the spirit of God move upon the face of the waters in Genesis 1:2? It seems that modern Westerners want their heroes flawed. He received good marks in Scripture. It certainly happened because it says there in verses 1 and 2 that Saul killed a lot of Gibeonites at some point in his reign. And, that was that. They did what is recalled in verses 3 through 6 above. Moreover, the Gibeonites who survived remembered, and they wanted blood when they were asked. So the king took Armoni and Mephibosheth, the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bore to Saul; and the five sons of Michal [Merabsee margin of most Bibles] the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite; and he delivered them into the hands of the Gibeonites, and they hanged them on the hill before the LORD. During the time of the judges, the Israelites had repeatedly turned away, leaving them corrupt and faithless. The soul who sins shall die. Pagan cultures were killed because they were pagan cultures and they were making war on Gods people. And with what shall I make atonement, that you may bless the inheritance of the LORD? They looked to Him and were radiant, and their faces were not ashamed. II Samuel 21:3-6 Therefore David said to the Gibeonites, "What shall I do for you? Now, we move forward, not very long in time, to Joshua 9. Clarify DECEPTION AND COST David did not come to this with any regal neutrality in the least. God was not in all his thoughts during this time. They knew! That is the background on the Gibeonites, and their relationship with Israel. After that, they had their problems at Ai, and figured out that Achan was responsible for that. David did all this, it seems, off the top of his head. Then they replied, It was Saul who planned to destroy us, to keep us from having any place at all in Israel. The Israelites had promised not to He could have done several things differently, perhaps giving the Gibeonites their freedom as a way to repay them. They were appeasing their own god to send rain. So they thought, "Hmm. However, there was not. So he said, "Whatever you say, I will do for you." And they took old sacks on their donkeys, old wineskins torn and mended, old and patched sandals on their feet, and old garments on themselves; and all the bread of their provision was dry and moldy. If the Gibeonites brought guile and deceit into the land; it was Saul who set the example for deep and devastating 0 responses The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. I think he was distracted by all the cares of his office of being king. Then there are things of degeneracy. They buried the bones of Saul and Jonathan his son in the country of Benjamin in Zelah, in the tomb of Kish his father. WebThe consequences of Israels covenant with the Gibeonites were not short-term. ", So David went out and said, "There are some things that have needed to be done. There is not much wiggle room in all this. They were probably innocent of this particular crime. Instead, David brings back twice as many. You do not know. At the time the Israelites under Joshua invaded the Promised Land of Canaan, most of the inhabitants rose up in arms against them. Let me ask God about this. God has torn the kingdom from you. It would be the equivalent of an event somewhere between the Korean War and the Vietnam War. It is his sin. WebOne of the mothers of the men hanged by the Gibeonites protected the bodies of Saul's sons from birds and wild beasts day and night. King Saul would conscript them into the army, and off they would go in a bloodthirsty rage against somebody else. 3:6: "for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life"? It is tainted.". We can't withstand them. So he brought up the bones of Saul and the bones of Jonathan his son from there; and they gathered the bones of those who had been hanged. There are references to the Lord, but they are not references in a spiritual sense. One other thing: Samuel said that God is not going to go back on His word. The words "thirty" and "forty" are not in the original Hebrew. . He attempted the genocide of The two hints are that Saul and his house had a reputation for violence"Saul and his bloodthirsty house." Web2 Samuel 21:2 indicates that King Saul pursued the Gibeonites and sought to kill them off "in his zeal for the children of Israel and Judah" (2 Samuel 21:5). They handed their enemies hard, stale, moldy bread and told them it had been freshly baked when they left home. After 7-10 years of war, David has solidified his empire Mar 2, 2022. Even their empty wine skins were completely dried up and cracked. Also, the Lord pronounced, It is a result of the massacre by Saul and welcome classification because Saul indeed destroyed the Gibeonites in the Bible. This would be in the spring during or after the Days of Unleavened Bread. There is another thing that needs to be thrown out there as a possible scenario, and this would have been the very worst and lowest that David could have sunk to. Exodus 21:23-25 But if any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. Back to the Gibeonitesmost people probably did not remember it. God sees behind the scenes. The chronicler, herewhoever he wasis giving us a big hint that David's attention was elsewhere for three whole years. THE BATTLES OF THE LORD Go back with me to Deuteronomy 7 and see the instruction that God gave to Israel about how to deal with these kinds of people. Then they answered the king, "As for the man who consumed us and plotted against us, that we should be destroyed from remaining in any of the territories of Israel, "let seven men of his descendants be delivered to us, and we will hang them before the LORD in Gibeah of Saul, whom the LORD chose." See? David asked. He understood it. Can we assume that God was in any way propitiated at the conclusion of this story? But they refused the offer. One is God's judgment upon the actual person for the actual sin; the other is God's punishment that He has automatically put into the law that allows the effects to last for a few generations. They knew all the things God had stipulated about what they were to do when Israel was going to come into the land. It would take three or four generations for perversion to be kicked out of a society. Where are they from? or who shall stand in his holy place? Ezekiel 18 makes it clear that God punishes people for their own iniquity. He became jealous and he went wacko, basically. They had remembered it for 40 or 50 years. Those who believe that they can outsmart, outflank or in any way outmaneuver our Enemy through cerebral strategies are doomed to the slavery and destruction heaped upon Saul and the Gibeonites. God took the initiative in this matter, by afflicting the nation of Israel with a famine because the house of Saul had put the Gibeonites to death. That is not what it says here. The Bible implicitly hints at something which caused a feud which was settled only by the blood of Sauls descendants. II Samuel 21:1 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David inquired of the LORD. What have you been thinking about?". Joshua realized he had been deceived, but he kept the letter of his covenant with the Gibeonites to let them live; however, he cursed and enslaved them as woodcutters and water-carriers. Saul later pursued the Gibeonites and sought to kill them off in his zeal for the children of Israel and Judah. Why were two of Saul's sons and five of Saul's grandsons killed for a crime they didn't commit? Time to retire!" However there is nothing in the text that indicates he did this. God extends blessings far farther into the future than He does the curses. II Samuel 21:14 So they performed all that the king commanded. In the economy of God's providence, however, such tiny events often matter much. King David is mentioned by name as a hero of faith. If people grow up in a society and culture that does not have God at their beck and call, they do whatever they wantwhatever comes naturally. Perhaps the Scriptures are contrasting the faithless actions of Saul and his house in regard to the covenant with the Gibeonites, with the faithful actions of David in regard to the covenant with Jonathan. All it is, was, "We want blood, and anyone from the house of Saul will do.". These curses are things like diseases that might affect genetics, and they came as the result of sin. What might he have done? God tells us that, spiritually, we have to go and wipe them out. Then, they went after Jericho, and it fell. God took the initiative in this matter, by afflicting the nation of Israel with a famine because the house of Saul had put the Gibeonites to death. Another possibility is that when Saul slew many of the priests at Nob he also executed many Gibeonites (1 Samuel 22:19). We are starting to get some of the atmosphere around this event now. So this zeal may not have carried good connotations (cf John 2:17) it was not zeal for God but zeal for man, an ongoing problem with Saul. I haven't been keeping up on things. King David came at it from a position of weakness, not of one who knew God's law and could answer these people from spiritual strength. Vote Up All I do know is that they do hold a solid place in world history and one of their offshoots or branches were the Gibeonites. It was certainly alive and well in Israel. Because of what had been going on, all the turmoil in this life and the kingdom, David was not spiritually prepared to face it. So Joshua made peace with them, and made a covenant with them to let them live; and the rulers of the congregation swore to them. And it would have been done quickly and easily. WebAnd the Lord answered, Saul and his family of murderers are the reason for the famine, because he killed the Gibeonites. 2 (The Gibeonites were not Israelites. He had a body of law that he could have referred back to and come up with a solution. Why was Satan so effective in influencing the actions of Eve? It seems as though he was spiritually sleepwalking through this whole thing. Our God has given us a law that says such and such, so this is what we are willing to do for you.". September 01 2013 Two years is a long time. But the king spared Mephibosheth the son of Jonathan, the son of Saul, because of the LORD's oath that was between them, between David and Jonathan the son of Saul. Then we have the explanations of which we just went over. 1316). Were they participants in killing the Gibeonites? At the request of the Gibeonites themselves, seven sons of Saul were executed ( II Sam. He was not thinking spiritually. What do we do in a time of spiritual famine? Here are guidelines to help facilitate a meaningful learning experience for everyone. Who was the father of Mephibosheth? In other words, we want them to be just like us. ", If you are on your spiritual game, and famine is occurring in your land, do you wait three years until thousands may have died? As we get to about verse 32 in Hebrews 11, Paul says that he does not have time to get to all the other heroes of faith that the Bible gives us. God punished the whole nation for breaking the covenant. And your strength shall be spent in vain; for your land shall not yield its produce, nor shall the trees of the land yield their fruit. * 1 Samuel 18:12 KJV And Saul was afraid of David, because the LORD was with him, and was departed from Saul. * 1 Samuel 18:15 KJV Wherefore when S They quailed at what they heard that Joshua and Israel had done at Jericho and Ai. The Gibeonites actually lived only a few miles from Jericho, the Twelve Tribes' designated entry point to Palestine. But Abishai the son of Zeruiah came to his aid, and struck the Philistine and killed him. He made huge errors in judgment, both personally and in a larger sense. Nearly two-thirds of American professing Christians believe that their Savior sinned. Forty years, at least, has passed, and had they been involved in it back when Saul was still kinglet us say they were 18 to 20 years oldthese men involved in this massacre, should they still be alive, might be 60, 65, or even 70 years old. The Jewish Encyclopedia asserts that one group of rabbis felt that Saul's punishment at God's hands is a sign of his weak moral character whose only virtue was being tall and handsome. Should the explanation in Genesis on how God created plants before the sun affect the understanding of creation? He was humble and relied on God, and was granted many victories over Israels enemies. Things started to go downhill over time however, as Saul became presumptuous and arrogant; he ignored several direct commands of God, and the last straw came when he interfered in offering a sacrifice to God, in direct contravention of what hed been told to do. Then, I am sure, he started to think about other things that were happening, and he started to make some reforms in himself. And David sought the face of the Lord. Numbers 35:29-33 And these things shall be a statute of judgment to you throughout your generations in all your dwellings. On the mammoth scene of world history this minor alliance would rank as a minute encounter. God isn't very pleased that these bodies have been exposed for six months against His law.". Ezekiel 18:19-20 Yet you say, 'Why should the son not bear the guilt of the father?' Back in I Samuel 15, Saul was told by God through Samuel to go up against the Amalekites, and to destroy everything in sight, do not spare anything; exterminate them. To re-establish peace between the two tribes, David fulfills the Gibeonites request to sacrifice two heirs of Israels throne, Sauls sons and grandsons. If, in the event the Israelis ever came their way, they would be servants to the people of Israel. WebVetus Testamentum 24:1 (January 1974):1-7.] The Bible barely alludes to the king's mad scheme, but we know that Saul's plot miserably failed. No silver or gold from that house. To all appearances, it seems that they got away with it. Once again, God's anointed was compelled to humble himself and his nation before a delegation of these servile Gibeonites. They wanted blood by putting to death seven male descendants to die for the crimes of that house against the Gibeonites. But, you would think that after two years you would get the idea that this was not breaking. Because of their peace treaty and their oath with the Gibeonites, which included these people. Vote Up It only says that God heeded the prayer of the land. Rizpah, Lord Alfred Tennyson in 1878. He got a little weird, throwing spears at David (and Jonathan too, once). So they fell, all seven together, and were put to death in the days of harvest, in the first days, in the beginning of barley harvest. However, if they did not participate, they are not going to be given a black mark by God for something that they did not do. He had to sit there and judge people with all the little things they constantly brought up to him that seemed to need his decision on. Had David been righteous and been crying out to God, God would have heard him. Skeptic turned believer, Catholic, father of 3, ABC/DTS graduate, guitar music ministry Baptist church. 2 Samuel 21:2 At this, David summoned the Gibeonites and spoke to them. Finally, after six or seven months, the rains came in their natural cycle. Then they asked for a king, and God gave them Saul son of Kish, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, for forty years. Share They haven't been put in Kish's sepulcher yet. Joshua 9:22-24 Then Joshua called for them, and he spoke to them, saying, "Why have you deceived us, saying, 'We are very far from you,' when you dwell near us? This incident of the famine took place rather late in David's life. I do not know when God through Samuel stripped him of the kingdom. You shall make no covenant with them nor show mercy to them. II Samuel 21:10-11 Now Rizpah the daughter of Aiah took sackcloth and spread it for herself on the rock, from the beginning of harvest until the late rains poured on them from heaven. There should have been payment for it. There was justice that was going to take place. 2 And the king called the Gibeonites, and said unto them; (now the Gibeonites were not of the children of Israel, but of the And the LORD answered, It is because of Saul and his bloodthirsty house, Is there something I'm missing? Spiritual virtues and qualities are largely unseen yet are more real and potent in lasting effects than the most formidable nuclear pile. He wanted to go do something else. They agree to the death of seven of Saul's descendants. Samuel turns away; Saul grabs at him and only catches his robe, and tears it. Notice verse 2 says that Saul tried to strike them down in his zeal (also means jealously or envy) for the people of Israel and Judah. Verse 5 does not say that the guilt of a person extends to his great-great grandchildren. We have all followed in the same way of life as our first parents Adam and Eve. WebWhen Sauls agents came up, she pretended that David was ill and placed a household idol and a net of goats hair in his bed, as if her husband were still lying there (vv. God says very clearly that Israel was to conquer them, destroy them, and make no covenant with them. The choice by Adam and Eve in the garden was a sin, and they paid for it through death. He committed colossal sins that whole nations would be held in contempt for. Today, I want to visit one of King David's lesser-known black marks, and draw some lessons from it at the end. It cut us off from God. How many wars were fought? In Rizpahs case, her husband, King Saul, broke his promise that the Israelites would spare the Gibeonites in battle; he ordered the Israelites to annihilate them. And, it certainly does not record that David took this to God for His solution to it. Exodus 20:4-6 You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. You didn't do it. Why was David so loyal to Saul after everything Saul had done to him? He just let them walk all over him. But what actually did Saul do to the Gibeonites? You are getting later and later in David's life here. WebDavid serves Saul with music on his harp Nov 24, 1025. If what happened against Gibeon occurred during Saul's reign, even if it was in the latter half, it would mean it was at least (if we are in the last decade of King David's reign) that the massacre of Gibeonites occurred 40 or 50 years earlier. Therefore David said to the Gibeonites, "What shall I do for you? This may have only been a couple of months later. the LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the No one killed king David. He died of old age, at the age of three score and ten (70 years). His son Solomon succeeded him. You might be thinking of (1) A three-year famine prompts David to seek God. With a careful reading and a bit of thought, you will begin to raise some questions. The Bible tells us that after Saul's death God sent a famine into the land mainly to get the attention of Saul's successor, King David. And that is why God heeded the prayer of the land. Based on what he knew, and what was available in God's law, David should have been much more judicious. For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth.". Luke 21:36 "Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.". It is the time of the beginning of the barley harvest. And those two are questionable. However, we have a great deal of trouble identifying with or understanding pure, innocent and perfect Galahad. When did Saul kill these Gibeonites? Other people do not carry the guilt for that person's sin. The problem was that God had not told Saul to do this, God had told Joshua to do that. And as the one righteous person in the whole nation, he could have cried out, God would have heard, and God would have saved. In fact, it can be read as if David approached it as only a minor administrative matter. There is nothing to give you any indication that God was involved in anything except the faminetrying to teach David a lesson. Israel was totally swindled and bamboozled. This does not make any sense. Vote Up We are talking about the possibility of only two of the seven even remotely having any guilt in this matter whatsoever. It's much too heavy any more!" 1 Then there was a famine in the days of David three years, year after year; and David enquired of the LORD. The second is at the end of verse 2, that "Saul had sought to kill them in his zeal for Israel and Judah." He was the king. Certainly, after three years you would. He was tired of life, tired of war, tired of all the politics, tired of all the rebellion, tired of Joab. There are so many things I have got to do.". WebWhen God called Saul to be king, Israel was on the verge of collapse. The verb is used in this sense with respect to Joshua's action toward the Gibeonites in Joshua 9:27, where cultic servitude is involved ("for the altar of the Lord"). It says a bit later that somebody told him what that woman was doing out there protecting the bodies of the slain men of Saul's house for the past six months and it was as though he said, "Oh really? Wherever he turned, he harassed them. It springs out when you are not ready. The Gibeonites achieved their short term goal - survival; but they paid a terribly long term price for it - virtual slavery! Saul and the heir to the throne, his son, Jonathan, were killed in a battle with the Philistines, and by popular acclamation, David became the King of Israel. He just let matters continue naturally and let it rub in for another six or seven months. 2Samuel 21:1, There is bloodguilt on Saul and on his house, because he put the Gibeonites to death.. "We don't want any money, for sure not Saul's money. There is a great deal more than what meets the eye. God did not perform a miracle to end this famine after these men were executed. Another group, however, argues that as God's anointed king, Israel had to live with those consequences for years to come. Now Rizpah the daughter of Aiah took sackcloth and spread it for herself on the rock, from the beginning of harvest until the late rains poured on them from heaven. This angered God and was only amended years later after sacrificing seven of Sauls sons to the Gibeonites by hanging them before Jehovah at Sauls hometown, Gibeah. After that, Gibeonites were no longer mentioned though there are some writers who believed that they were among the Nethinim, the ones selected to serve the temple. Sheba was killed Wherefore when S they quailed at what they heard that Joshua and Israel had done at and. Matter whatsoever the dearth of the atmosphere around this event now:1-7. n't been in! 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For their own God to send rain Saul slew many of the kingdom not the David of Psalm,! Genesis on how God created plants before the sun affect the understanding of creation weird throwing... The chronicler, herewhoever he wasis giving us a big hint that David took this to,! 'S attention was elsewhere for three whole years a feud which was settled by... Do. `` 40 or 50 years went over or understanding pure, innocent perfect! Israelite version was a sin, and their oath with the Gibeonites and spoke to them Gibeonites their! Law that he could have referred back to and come up with a.! Whole nations would be a town in Benjamin just north of Jerusalem keep us from having any at. Had been freshly baked when they left home that you may bless the inheritance of the land as. And Eve things I have got to do when Israel was to conquer them, destroy them, and the. He killed the Gibeonites threatened by a Philistine attack, Saul and his nation before a delegation of servile!